Curse

TurinPT · Sep 03, 2008, 07:13 PM // 19:13

I don't get all the teams wanting a spirit spammer, taking an extra nuker with FS is much better.

Gotta love when the warders wipe half the party with Predatory up and everyone starts crying OMG NOOB MONK.

boarderx · Sep 03, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

dont forget about [snow storm] its a great addition so even the ranger can help nuke

stretchs · Sep 04, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Have seen 6 vs drop so far in 2 days of farming this, about 30 runs i guess, so I am either lucky in seeing them, or just a coincidence. imo, the fastest runs, are 5 ele, 1 ua monk, 1 r/rt and 1 n/me. The key skill imo is on the necro being [card]Well of Profane[/card] It really does help alot for the sin and all the death novas as well as some of the other enchants used by the dwarves. As well, you get yourself more damage with 5 eles. I like having a little variety in my party using Deep Freeze on one, and I have carried Mark of Rodgort as well to help finish off some of the stragglers.

Dzjudz · Sep 04, 2008, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Well I've done about 60-80 runs, and I've yet to see one drop!

Oh yes, and wtf is up with some sins asking for a fee? How low can you go? I made a new sin yesterday, it's lvl20 and doing the quests to get IAU already. I'm not going to charge...

Edit: ^^, where is the sin in your teambuild, the 9th member? :P

lordheinous · Sep 04, 2008, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretchs

imo, the fastest runs, are 5 ele, 1 ua monk, 1 r/rt and 1 n/me.

That's nice and all, but 5+1+1+1=8, and theres no perma listed, so whos going to make the run?

explodemyheart · Sep 04, 2008, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Oh yes, and wtf is up with some sins asking for a fee? How low can you go? I made a new sin yesterday, it's lvl20 and doing the quests to get IAU already. I'm not going to charge...

I noticed that yesterday. I started seeing sins say "pay me 500g each or I won't go" and people justifying it with "it's only fair, they have to do all the running". To be honest, if anybody deserved to be paid, it'd be the monks. It's super nice when the idiot PUGs stand in sandstorm and churning earth and get plowed.

Anyway, when the sins can complete the entire farm by themselves, I'll start paying. Until then, they can shove it.

Dzjudz · Sep 04, 2008, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

To be honest, if anybody deserved to be paid, it'd be the monks.

Don't give them any ideas

AOD_EaSyKiLL · Sep 04, 2008, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

I noticed that yesterday. I started seeing sins say "pay me 500g each or I won't go" and people justifying it with "it's only fair, they have to do all the running". To be honest, if anybody deserved to be paid, it'd be the monks. It's super nice when the idiot PUGs stand in sandstorm and churning earth and get plowed.

Anyway, when the sins can complete the entire farm by themselves, I'll start paying. Until then, they can shove it.

Untill you can do the run on a sin yourself, dont knock the other sins.

The sin takes all the blame for everything, and depending on the build, may use a decent amount of alcohol and/or cupcakes, just to make the run as problem free as possible. I personally dont charge, but I definately dont blame the others, especially when there is a shortage of them.

L|S >+>+G+<+< · Sep 04, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

I noticed that yesterday. I started seeing sins say "pay me 500g each or I won't go" and people justifying it with "it's only fair, they have to do all the running". To be honest, if anybody deserved to be paid, it'd be the monks. It's super nice when the idiot PUGs stand in sandstorm and churning earth and get plowed.

Anyway, when the sins can complete the entire farm by themselves, I'll start paying. Until then, they can shove it.

You have a point, however.....

I do believe that other people in the team should bring along ale for the sins as ale isn't free & is used in the build.

So I understand you but also perhaps you & the others that do this shouldn't take sins for granted either...

My 2 cents

flipfly2004 · Sep 04, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47

if a sin is skilled... he wont need any consumables -.-"

im a permasin too and somehow i do understand why others ask for fee - well i dont...
i just tell them to feel free ti give tips ^^
some who appreciate my efforts give me some plats, and those who dont... uhm its ok

explodemyheart · Sep 04, 2008, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOD_EaSyKiLL

Untill you can do the run on a sin yourself, dont knock the other sins.

The sin takes all the blame for everything, and depending on the build, may use a decent amount of alcohol and/or cupcakes, just to make the run as problem free as possible. I personally dont charge, but I definately dont blame the others, especially when there is a shortage of them.

I can and do run the sin, thanks. It isn't that hard, really boring if anything. I have yet to be in a group that has blamed me, or been in a group that has blamed the sin. Usually the groups I'm in blame the monks if anything goes wrong.

The biggest problem with them charging is that they do, in fact, suck at their job. Just like many PUG monks that used to demand payment back in the day when there was a shortage of them. First of all, as I've said before, it really isn't that hard of a job. Second, if you suck, you have no right demanding payment for your services.

And for the record, the couple of really good sins I've had in my groups have been tipped for their services. But they were good and never demanded payment for their part in a TEAM effort.

gerg-nad · Sep 04, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

I am the most unlucky person out there as I have done 100 Slaver full runs before this Farm run became popular, so 100*5 chests = 500 and now about 200-250 farm runs, so total of 700 to 750 runs and have not gotten a voltaic spear. I have plenty of Amethyst, Ember-steel, and Pyroclastic and even a few Fuchsia Staffs, but not one Voltaic Spear. I have had 4 Spear of the Hierophant drop (at Duncan), but the greens, because they are not modable are not as desirable.

They should make the greens modable, as I thought greens were to be the most desirable drops in the game, but as it stands low rec. golds are much more valuable.

english storm · Sep 04, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

I noticed that yesterday. I started seeing sins say "pay me 500g each or I won't go" and people justifying it with "it's only fair, they have to do all the running". To be honest, if anybody deserved to be paid, it'd be the monks. It's super nice when the idiot PUGs stand in sandstorm and churning earth and get plowed.

Anyway, when the sins can complete the entire farm by themselves, I'll start paying. Until then, they can shove it.

I disagree, as much as it pains me to say it, the sin's are the ones doing all the hard work (still wouldn't pay though) The monks have an easier time in a good group, as long as the eles wait for the sin to keep aggro and call, then the sin should be the only one taking damage. Yeah in bad groups the warders can wipe your party though...

Things go quicker and smoother if you take 1 monk and 5 eles that are patient! It's all over before the warders get a chance to attack

Flying Spell · Sep 04, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by english storm

I disagree, as much as it pains me to say it, the sin's are the ones doing all the hard work

Really? Then why doesn't the sin just solo the run?

It is a team effort. Keep that in mind at all times.

lordheinous · Sep 04, 2008, 05:30 PM // 17:30

I actually stopped doing this run a few days ago, and am surprised that it seems so many people are still doing it. I did 100+ runs, and the only thing I got of worth was a r10 ammy aegis...which I haven't been able to sell, highest offer I've gotten for it was 8k lol. Besides the fact the run is boring as hell and unreliable in the chances of good drops, even the value of those "good" drops are starting to fall like hell. I was running it on my sin, and I can do chaos planes runs, even with it's current state, and get much more reliable income. True, it may not be the most stimulating thing ever, but its no less interesting than the vs farm, and I get rid of the pug variable as well (I count alliance groups in my case as pugs too, they generally are just as random

).

As far as the sin charging goes, I never did it, but I can see why GOOD sins would do so, and if I do start doing the run again, I probably will. While the sin is running, both in verdant and slavers itself, the rest of the party can do whatever-talk, eat, read, watch tv, go randomly afk, and they frequently do. So, the run may be 7-9 minutes total for the sin, but it may actually only be 1-2 minutes for the rest of the party. Therefore, in reality, you actually have not one run, but two; one which is insanely profitable as it allows you to be afk most of the time then get a good reward chest for 1-2 minutes work, while the other is tedious, requires one to actually be at the computer for most of the run, and requires at least some skill to be done right, but it gets exactly the same reward as the other "farm". Is it any wonder that there is a shortage of sins? Also, if you need cons as a perma, you're doing it wrong; the method that some idiot posted on the wiki is incredibly stupid for HM, so figure out how to do it without the stupid perma-dark escape idea.

Truegen · Sep 04, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Spell

Really? Then why doesn't the sin just solo the run?

It is a team effort. Keep that in mind at all times.

No one said the sin did all the work...Don't get on someone's case for something they didn't say.

And the sins DO do the hardest part of the run, but the other players are in no way invaluable. Everyone plays a necessary role, but not everyone has to run to the dungeon as well as grab aggro every time and get trampled

The Arching Healer · Sep 04, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Spell

Really? Then why doesn't the sin just solo the run?

It is a team effort. Keep that in mind at all times.

A sin can solo with h/h, all other professions can't.

explodemyheart · Sep 04, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by english storm

I disagree, as much as it pains me to say it, the sin's are the ones doing all the hard work (still wouldn't pay though) The monks have an easier time in a good group, as long as the eles wait for the sin to keep aggro and call, then the sin should be the only one taking damage.

And the sins have an easier time if they're good, which most of them aren't. Moot point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by english storm

A sin can solo with h/h, all other professions can't.

Then maybe they should, instead of asking to be paid for a farm that they need others to help them complete.

It's people being greedy, it's that pure and simple. Sins asking to be paid is as dumb as monks asking to be paid back in the day for their healing services. Just like this situation, the monks needed other people to kill things for them.

If they're good and they want to ask for tips, that's cool because it's optional and a lot of people will actually tip, even when the sin isn't actively asking for tips. But a sin sitting in grotto spamming "running VS, 500g per person per run" is just stupid. If it's such hard work that they need to charge for it, maybe they should switch to a different class and leave the sin to the people who aren't such greedy asshats.

lordheinous · Sep 04, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

And the sins have an easier time if they're good, which most of them aren't. Moot point.

Then maybe they should, instead of asking to be paid for a farm that they need others to help them complete.

It's people being greedy, it's that pure and simple. Sins asking to be paid is as dumb as monks asking to be paid back in the day for their healing services. Just like this situation, the monks needed other people to kill things for them.

If they're good and they want to ask for tips, that's cool because it's optional and a lot of people will actually tip, even when the sin isn't actively asking for tips. But a sin sitting in grotto spamming "running VS, 500g per person per run" is just stupid. If it's such hard work that they need to charge for it, maybe they should switch to a different class and leave the sin to the people who aren't such greedy asshats.

No, because as I explained in my post above, there are actually two DIFFERENT farms-the one 7/8 of the party does, that requires some afk and 1-2 minutes actually playing, and the sin's, which requires 7-9 minutes playing, is tedious as hell, and which most people can't do well. However, they get the same rewards. Also, some people seem to think that the same number of good sins will do the run either way, which isn't the case. The rewards gotten are spectacular for 1-2 minutes plus some afk, but not so much for 7-9 minutes, especially when you're doing multiple runs; the sin is cosntantly working, while the others are taking "breaks" that are actually the majority of the run time.

I stopped doing the run as sin awhile ago because of the lack of profit, but today I decided to try again, with charging 500g a run, as that would make up for the disparity. I realized as well that people had no way to know whether I was good or not, so I even decided to make the 1st run free, so they could see that I could make the run without dying (or with dying, if I sucked, which fortunately isn't the case). However, all I got was people spamming in all chat that I had scammed them within 30 seconds of me starting my message(lol), and others pming obscenities at me. I finally got a group, gave them the free run with no problems at my end, however 2 of the eles were still afk when I had pulled the groups to the corner, and the others couldn't coordinate there nukes, and they kept on nuking minion only groups for no apparent reason. Although I wouldn't have done another run with them anyways, even being payed, 5 of them left after the reward chest, probably because they wanted to get the free run and never had any intention to pay anyways.

So, you know what? You win. I'm not going to charge for my runs. Of course, whether you actually win or not is questionable, as I'm not going to be doing any runs at all, as the time, effort, and boredom to reward ratio is just too bad to justify it. Judging by the number of groups that were spamming "glf for perma to go !!!1!1!1" and the lack of "perma lfg", I think that most perma who, like me, could make the run without trouble so long as there wasn't lag probably came to the same conclusion, as anyone with the skills to correctly do this perma run can do a hundred more profitable perma farming runs than the Thommis one.

eximiis · Sep 04, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

but then again amethyst, fellblade, voltaic spear, serrated spear, gloom shield can net some nice gold! just selling junk gold makes some money.

If you don't make enough money with the runs, maybe you VERY greedy ?

as for charging, go do something else while other perma do the runs.